Nature Calls 🍃 Conversations from the Hudson Valley

Transcribed by Jerome Kazlauskas

Tim Kennelty  0:03  
Hi, I'm Tim Kennelty.

Jean Thomas  0:04  
And I'm Jean Thomas.

Tim Kennelty  0:05  
And welcome to "Nature Calls: Conversations from the Hudson Valley."

Jean Thomas  0:09  
And our guest today is Kristi Sullivan. Kristi is the director of ...

Brett Barry  0:13  
In 2022, four Master Gardeners were looking for a new way to bring their expertise to our region, and they did so with a weekly podcast on everything from honey bees to hydrangeas; perennials and pollinators; monarchs, chickens, seeds, goats, and houseplants—and with 119 episodes and counting, since that 2022 launch, the seed for this podcast was planted in the midst of the American Civil War. I'll explain how that germinated ... right after this.

Campbell Brown  0:48  
Kaatscast is supported by the Mountain Eagle, covering Delaware, Greene, and Schoharie counties, including brands for the local region such as the Windham Weekly, Schoharie News, Cobleskill Herald, and Catskills Chronicle. For more information, call 518-763-6854 or email: mountaineaglenews@gmail.com; and by Briars & Brambles Books. The go to independent book and gift store in the Catskills, located in Windham, New York, right next to the pharmacy, just steps away from the Windham Path. Open daily. For more information, visit briarsandbramblesbooks.com or call 518-750-8599.

Audio  1:26  
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Brett Barry  1:34  
160 years before "Nature Calls" recorded its first conversation, Abraham Lincoln signed the Morrill Land-Grant College Act of 1862, setting aside federal lands to create colleges to benefit the agricultural and mechanical arts. 25 years later, the Hatch Act of 1887 provided land-grant institutions with funding for agricultural research. The Smith-Lever Act of 1914 took that a step further, establishing a system of cooperative extension services for the benefit of the public. Here in New York, you've probably heard of ... and maybe even consulted with a Cornell Cooperative Extension or CCE. That's because Cornell is New York's land-grant university with satellites in every county.

Audio  2:27  
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Brett Barry  2:28  
Community outreach and engagement is a tenant of land-grant university extensions like Cornell's, and at their Columbia and Greene County Division, that outreach includes weekly conversations on the "Nature Calls" podcast.

Audio  2:42  
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Brett Barry  2:43  
The producers invited me to a recording session on CCE's Hudson Campus, where we interviewed each other about our respective podcast series and I didn't even have to unpack my recording equipment, since their mics were already set up with "Nature Calls" engineer Linda Aydlett at the controls. On today's "Kaatscast," hear from four master gardeners using podcasts to bring gardening, ecology, and nature to Hudson Valley listeners.

Audio  3:13  
[MUSIC]

Brett Barry  3:16  
I'm here with master gardeners [Jean Thomas, Teresa Golden, Linda Aydlett & Robin Smith] from the Cornell Cooperative Extension of Columbia and Greene Counties and they have a podcast along with Tim Kennelty and Annie Scibienski called "Nature Calls: Conversations from the Hudson Valley." Thank you for hosting me in your studio. We're sitting at a kind of a buffet table here with some ... some nice podcasting equipment. Tell me a little bit about why you decided to create a podcast in the first place and what are some of the challenges and joys of putting that media out into the world to tell your story.

Teresa Golden  4:04  
Well, we started with a radio show [Jean and I] called "Digging In With Master Gardeners" and we were doing that for about a year. I think it was a monthly, if I recall, I think it was a monthly show and then COVID hit and we couldn't get back into the studio obviously—and so a bunch of us got together as Tim, Jean, me and Linda—and we said, "Okay, how do we keep the momentum going? Because the master gardeners couldn't get together"—and so he said, "We've got to figure out a safe way that we can still enjoy each other's company, do what we love, yet also be safe"—and so we bounced around a couple of ideas and ultimately decided that a podcast was a better way to go, and then we were looking to figure out whether we should go out on our own or stay with Cornell Cooperative Extension and we concluded that because our topic was focused on nature. We were better off under the stewardship of Cornell Cooperative Extension, which is really focused on disseminated science-based information—and so that's kind of was the beginning.

Brett Barry  5:16  
So who learned how to podcast?

Jean Thomas  5:19  
Teresa and Tim and I were sitting around talking and saying, "Gee, who would be the best one to figure out how to podcast and unanimously in chorus? The three of us had Linda."

Brett Barry  5:29  
Linda, who's not on a microphone right now, but she's hovering over the little recording device that's capturing all of our voices. Okay, a mic has been passed.

Linda Aydlett  5:38  
Hi!

Brett Barry  5:38  
Hello, Linda!

Linda Aydlett  5:39  
So I was invited in to do the technical stuff which actually, when I think about it, I'm not sure how they knew I did technical stuff.

Everyone  5:46  
[LAUGHTER]

Linda Aydlett  5:47  
Because we never did technical stuff before, so maybe they can answer that.

Jean Thomas  5:51  
It mostly has to do with the fact that Linda can do anything.

Linda Aydlett  5:55  
But it did have a background in doing this, but it was decades ago, so it was with garage bands and disco dancers and stuff like that.

Brett Barry  6:05  
So you record, and then Teresa, you edit?

Teresa Golden  6:08  
Linda and I both take turns editing, so it really depends on what the episode is and how interested we're in it and who's got the more ... more time at any given time. So it takes time ... there's times where she does all the editing and there's times that I take on more of the editing so ... but she does all the intros and the outros and all the segways and she worries about that kind of stuff.

Brett Barry  6:32  
Now, I noticed that your announcer is really silky toned and very consistent. Can you tell me about your announcer who is one of the reasons that the voiceover industry is dying, Linda?

Linda Aydlett  6:50  
Yes, yes. A lot of other industries are going to die [too] with this. It's artificial intelligence.

Brett Barry  6:54  
Yeah.

Linda Aydlett  6:55  
We did ... we did sort of interview or did test [beta test] different voices to do voiceovers and just weren't finding anything quite right and I just stumbled on this one ... one voice from this one company and said, "That's it," and we just type in the intro and ... and put in some inflection punctuation and ... and out comes the audio.

"A.I. Guy"  7:17  
Welcome to "Nature Calls: Conversations from the Hudson Valley." Our team's goal is to present science-based information about gardening and all things nature in New York's Hudson Valley.

Brett Barry  7:27  
Well, he's pretty good, but I'm ... I'm glad that he ... he doesn't have a major role in this show. I'm glad that humans are behind most of it.

Linda Aydlett  7:34  
Oh, absolutely. She used to do the redundant over and over, you know, material.

Brett Barry  7:41  
So let's back up a little bit before the podcast. The content itself is all about gardening in the Hudson Valley and the Catskills, right? So can you tell me a little bit about ... you're all master gardeners ... what does that mean?

Jean Thomas  7:55  
Gardening is kind of limiting. We're ... we're trying to keep it "Nature Calls" and expand it because, as master gardeners, we get into so many fields beyond just being out doing veggies and flowers and stuff. We're interested in all facets of nature. Cooperative extension does education in a tremendous amount of things. They do forestry education. They have master foresters, not just master gardeners. Linda is a master beekeeper, Teresa is a master forest owner [right] and Tim is a master naturalist. There's a whole set of categories and it's not just gardening. The range is vast and the personnel has master gardener volunteers is the most amazing assortment of people with the most amazing outreach and interests and contacts that we ... we've been reaching out to PBS show people ... we've been reaching out to authors of ... of some really big title books and much to our amazement. They say, "Sure, we'll come be on your podcast," so the core though of the master gardener expertise is vast. It's not just gardening.

Brett Barry  9:16  
What does it take to be a master in any of these areas? Is there a curriculum? Is there other tests? How do you get this illustrious badge?

Teresa Golden  9:25  
When I took the training back in 2005, it was a 13-week program, where you learned all different types of topics and a lot of it was a refresher of what you learned back at school. That's like ... "Oh, plant pathology!" It's been a long time, but botany. I haven't thought about that in a while; a lot of things about insects, a lot of things about wildlife, and you take all the classes, and then basically you have about 75 hours that we have to give back every year as a volunteer. I think everybody in this room gives back way more than 75 hours a year, but we do things that we love.

Brett Barry  10:04  
Well, this podcast takes you more than 75 hours a year, I would imagine ...

Teresa Golden  10:07  
Easily.

Brett Barry  10:07  
... and that's giving back to the community because you're disseminating that information that people want to hear.

Teresa Golden  10:12  
Easily, but we get involved in the county fairs.

Brett Barry  10:14  
Mm-hmm.

Teresa Golden  10:14  
We have a spring gardening day or spring gardening days, where we basically do a lot of education and dissemination. We participate or show up at a lot of farmers' markets—and so there's a variety of different activities that are involved and people do what they love.

Brett Barry  10:32  
What's your relationship with the Cornell Cooperative Extension?

Jean Thomas  10:36  
They love us.

Everyone  10:36  
[LAUGHTER]

Brett Barry  10:38  
How are you affiliated with them? Is there an official relationship or ...

Teresa Golden  10:42  
They have the best volunteers [this official affiliation].

Brett Barry  10:47  
Mm-hmm.

Teresa Golden  10:47  
To be ... to become a master gardener volunteer, you have to take, go through the training, and abide by Cornell's rules ...

Brett Barry  10:53  
Mm-hmm.

Teresa Golden  10:53  
... and work with them to get back to the community.

Brett Barry  10:56  
Is the "Master Gardener Program" a Cornell program?

Teresa Golden  11:00  
Yes.

Brett Barry  11:01  
I see.

Teresa Golden  11:02  
Well, it's part of a ... there's a land-grant program across the United States. It started with Abraham Lincoln—and so every state has a land-grant university, and then within New York, it's Cornell University, and then they have every county has their own cooperative extension—and so our extension happens to cover two counties: both Columbia and Greene counties.

Brett Barry  11:27  
So Cornell is responsible for covering New York State and all its counties ...

Teresa Golden  11:31  
That's correct.

Brett Barry  11:32  
... and every state has a ... thanks to Abraham Lincoln ...

Teresa Golden  11:36  
Yeah, Penn State University covers Pennsylvania.

Brett Barry  11:39  
Mm-hmm.

Teresa Golden  11:39  
University of Maine covers Maine.

Brett Barry  11:41  
Mm-hmm.

Teresa Golden  11:42  
So it's ... I think it's Rutgers covers Jersey.

Brett Barry  11:45  
... and it's an educational outreach to the residents of each state.

Teresa Golden  11:49  
Right, the whole purpose is to educate the community about the natural environment.

Brett Barry  11:53  
Mm-hmm.

Teresa Golden  11:53  
Now, Cornell here has a "Natural Resources Group," they've got the "Horticulture Group," they've got a "Nutrition Group" as well, which is equally important.

Jean Thomas  12:04  
4-H?

Teresa Golden  12:05  
4-H, of course, is huge. So that's with a lot of the involvement ... the county fair is just through the 4-H unit.

Brett Barry  12:12  
And what was the Cornell Cooperative Extension of Columbia and Greene's response to you wanting to do a podcast through, I mean, how much involvement is there between what you're doing in the podcast and the organization itself? Do they fund this in any way: this equipment? Did you have to buy this yourself?

Jean Thomas  12:30  
The equipment belongs to them and we went on a road trip and they did cover some of the expenses. We went out to Ithaca for three days and interviewed how many interviews did we get: nine or ten? Yeah, so they're encouraging ...

Brett Barry  12:45  
Great.

Jean Thomas  12:45  
... and they give us a recording studio, such as it is in each county, so that when we invite people to come, we can usually invite them to the closer county of the two because there's quite a difference: milewise between the two.

Brett Barry  13:01  
So you have a rotating series of studio spaces that you use ...

Teresa Golden  13:04  
Yeah.

Brett Barry  13:05  
... conference rooms and whatever happens to be available in each location like this room we're in right now? Is there any oversight on ... on the topics and the material?

Teresa Golden  13:17  
We send it to Cornell to review ...

Brett Barry  13:19  
Mm-hmm.

Teresa Golden  13:19  
... to make sure that we follow all the guidelines, but normally, if there's any modifications are minor, they all occasionally suggest: people first interview ...

Brett Barry  13:29  
Mm-hmm.

Teresa Golden  13:29  
... but fairly they give us pretty free range.

Brett Barry  13:33  
And you also [Jean] write a column for the Mountain Eagle, so you're kind of disseminating information in various ways.

Jean Thomas  13:42  
Yeah, it's kind of an outgrowth. It's a chat column and I try to refer back to an episode from the podcast. I don't know if anybody pays attention, but I always putting links in.

Brett Barry  13:56  
I noticed it.

Jean Thomas  13:57  
Oh, there you go, good.

Brett Barry  13:59  
And your list of ideas, do you have any danger of running out?

Jean Thomas  14:05  
No, absolutely not. We've got enough product in the ... in the bucket. Right now, that we're what ... several months ahead?

Brett Barry  14:08  
Wow!

Jean Thomas  14:16  
So odd and interviewed today won't show up for about eight weeks, maybe? On good days, we can do five interviews, which is five weeks. Early on, we didn't know what length interview was going to be ideal, so they would very drastically sort of fill the half hour that we were aiming for. We taped about a dozen different series of what we call "Podlets," so there'd be a ... like maybe three-minute piece filler, but there was a series of twelve of them. Linda did one on beekeeping from the bee's viewpoint. Three episodes ... Teresa did a series on vegetable gardening that ended up also three and what other ones to do.

Everyone  14:59  
Pest and pathogens is coming up ... it's going to be three episodes as well.

Jean Thomas  15:03  
And they were fillers. But now they're whole units on their own and they're even better as clusters than they were as little fragments, so we can keep expanding what we have.

Brett Barry  15:16  
And so you bring in a number of guests ... experts in their fields?

Jean Thomas  15:19  
Mm-hmm.

Brett Barry  15:19  
Right before I sat down, you were interviewing two experts on spongy moths?

Jean Thomas  15:24  
Mm-hmm.

Brett Barry  15:24  
Formerly known as gypsy moths, who give lots of information on that, I understand, so ...

Jean Thomas  15:30  
I hope they're fascinating.

Brett Barry  15:31  
Yeah.

Jean Thomas  15:31  
Yeah.

Brett Barry  15:32  
So have you ... as you said, "Guests are not shy about coming on," right?

Jean Thomas  15:36  
No, yeah.

Brett Barry  15:37  
Most people who are passionate about what they do and want to tell people about it.

Jean Thomas  15:40  
And the beauty of that not only are they passionate to the point where they will drive to the middle of where they have no idea where they're going, but they're always almost invariably eloquent because they're passionate about what they're talking about, of course, at the level of PhD college professors who've written books on, you know, they could find it easy to be very eloquent.

Brett Barry  16:03  
Yeah.

Teresa Golden  16:04  
A lot of these folks will find by listening to webinars or, you know, pursuing topics that have individual interest. So the fact that a lot of these folks are willing to, you know, come on the show and talk with us is wonderful.

Brett Barry  16:19  
Is it difficult ever having one, two, three, four, five, six cooks in the kitchen on this podcast?

Jean Thomas  16:25  
Well, we've ... we've kind of got our own niches.

Everyone  16:28  
Mm-hmm, right.

Jean Thomas  16:28  
Yeah.

Teresa Golden  16:29  
Jean's a phenomenal writer, Tim and Jean do a lot of the scheduling, Linda and I do most of the back-end work and Robin's new, but she's getting involved in editing. She's getting involved in the sound engineering side of it, so that of it is we're trying to incorporate as many people as possible.

Brett Barry  16:48  
And then, Cornell supports by hosting everything on a page of their site ...

Teresa Golden  16:51  
Yes.

Jean Thomas  16:52  
Yeah.

Brett Barry  16:52  
... but it's also available on regular podcast platforms.

Jean Thomas  16:55  
Yes.

Teresa Golden  16:56  
Yes.

Jean Thomas  16:56  
Yeah, we're on all the platforms.

Brett Barry  16:59  
So how long have you been doing this?

Teresa Golden  17:01  
First episode was January 23rd of 2022. Whoa, it's two years.

Jean Thomas  17:07  
Is that two years?

Brett Barry  17:09  
And so let's just say, "Two years from now, where would you like to see this podcast?"

Jean Thomas  17:14  
I think just more of the same. We're pretty pleased with what we've got. It's kind of what we were aiming for ... was people coming in and talking about things that ... that we can present. I talk about my third grade questions all the time. I mean, we got these two PhD guys that wandered in here today and talked about spongy moths, so that people understood it, and didn't just say, "Oh, it's a spongy moth and not know a thing about it."

Brett Barry  17:42  
Mm-hmm.

Jean Thomas  17:42  
They ... they were describing it in a way that explained how they spent 30 years on understanding this stuff and we're able to translate it to us. I think that's kind of what it is, is bringing it so that people can understand. I mean, you hear all the jargon, but I think reaching people where they say, "Oh, okay, and we've got a small enough chunk of time that we don't get—listener exhaustion." They go, "Oh, yeah," and because I tend to do that a lot.

Brett Barry  18:13  
But, on the other hand, the podcast gives you enough time to dig deep enough that people will have a better understanding than just a quick social media post or, you know, a local news story.

Jean Thomas  18:23  
And the show notes and the references, if anybody is that interested ... they can go look and get all kinds of more information and it's available.

Audio  18:34  
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Teresa Golden  18:38  
One of the things we realized, especially during the podcast, is that ... as master gardeners, if we gave a class, we would probably get 15-20 people in the room. We can do a podcast, reach over 200 people a week, with ... so expand the audience as well as provide, but maybe not as much information as you would get in-person because you can do hands-on stuff in-person, but we can actually do, I think, one of the educational roles of the extension is ... is to reach as many people as possible to help everybody get to gain a better appreciation for the natural world.

Brett Barry  19:16  
You can hear "Nature Calls: Conversations from the Hudson Valley" at ccecolumbiagreene.org or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Brett Barry and this is "Kaatscast: The Catskills Podcast." Please subscribe on your favorite app and keep in touch at kaatscast.com and on Instagram @kaatscast. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.

Audio  19:44  
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Campbell Brown  19:44  
This episode is supported by Hanford Mills Museum. Explore the power of the past and learn about the ingenuity of the historic milling industry. Watch the waterwheel bring a working sawmill to life. Bring a picnic to enjoy by the millpond. For more information about scheduling a tour or about their 2024 exploration days, visit hanfordmills.org. Kaatscast is supported by a generous grant from the Nicholas J. Juried Family Foundation and by listeners like you! If you'd like to make a donation, you can do so at kaatscast.com. Thank you!

Audio  20:18  
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