Preparing for a Hike 🎒 with Paul Misko

Transcribed by Jerome Kazlauskas

Paul Misko  0:03  
I met one fellow, hiked with him a few times, but he didn't want to carry anything, and his reasoning was nothing's ever happened to me and I hope you can see the lack of logic in that response.

Brett Barry  0:15  
Paul Misko is an avid Catskills hiker, historian, and the founder of a unique hiking club—and, like a good boy scout, he's always prepared. As spring rolls in and we pull out those hiking boots, maybe shaking out some nuts and nesting material from winter mouse habitation, Paul thought this would be a good time for a refresher on what to bring along on our walks in the woods. So we sat down for some valuable intel based on years of experience. I'm Brett Barry and this is "Kaatscast: The Catskills Podcast."

Campbell Brown  0:55  
This episode is supported by Hanford Mills Museum. Explore the power of the past as knowledgeable staff guide you through the mill with demonstrations of the waterwheel, sawmill, and woodworking machines. For more information about scheduling a tour or about their 2024 exploration days, visit hanfordmills.org; and by Briars & Brambles Books. The go to independent book and gift store in the Catskills, located in Windham, New York, right next to the pharmacy, just steps away from the Windham Path. Open daily. For more information, visit briarsandbramblesbooks.com or call 518-750-8599.

Paul Misko  1:32  
Hi, my name is Paul Misko. I have been coming to the Catskills since I was a one-year-old. My parents bought a cabin in Woodland Valley near Phoenicia—and so we've had as a summer, you know, to spend the summer up there as a kid—and, of course, a lot of weekends. So we really got a lot of experience in the outdoors and that started me on my hiking.

Brett Barry  1:57  
Now, many people if not most people know about "The Catskill 3500 Club," whose members hike the 30 ... now 33 publicly accessible peaks over 3500 feet, but you run an even loftier hiking club called "The 4000 Club." Can you take us through the requirements for membership to your club?

Paul Misko  2:18  
Well, I started "The 4000 Club" as a lark, just ... just to have fun with the peak bagging game and "The 3500 Club" is a very good group. It's a very worthy goal to go after, but this was just started with a small group of friends—and so we made up our own t-shirt and we keep the group small, so we could go to a lot of other venues that you couldn't take a large group, too, and membership is just, you know, by invite people we know and are invited into the group—and so we do a lot of historic types of hikes [John Burroughs' themed hikes] and we practice good preparedness on the trail.

Brett Barry  3:00  
There is a requirement in terms of peaks for "The 4000 Club."

Paul Misko  3:03  
Well, yeah, you have to have climbed [Slide and Hunter] the two peaks over 4000 feet in the Catskills.

Brett Barry  3:10  
And "The 4000 Club" is also engaged in service activities. Can you elaborate on some of those which are kind of fun?

Paul Misko  3:16  
Well, our most famous one is we replaced the toilet seat in the outhouse on the summit of Hunter Mountain. They may sound trivial. But until you've done that, it was pretty, pretty gross. But we took it on and replace the seat. It needs another replacement. This was a few years ago. You know, it's just kind of fun. We do a couple of other things and one of the fun things we've done many times on a hot hiking day is we bring up a bag of Klondike bars and dry ice and pass out ice cream on a trail and that's usually a big hit and a lot of fun for people.

Brett Barry  3:53  
What's your personal hiking history here in the Catskills?

Paul Misko  3:57  
I was in Boy Scouts—and so I like the outdoors, and when I was about 12, I would start go off hiking on my own, just take my canvas boy scout pack, you know, with my axe and my flashlight and all the heavy gear that we had back then, and I would just go off for the afternoon and my parents were okay. I tell them basically where I was going and never had any problems, but I was always prepared. He always had, you know, some of the basics. Later on, when I was 14, my brother and I did an overnight on Wittenberg on New Year's Eve, and we realized how unprepared we were [things like wearing blue jeans], you know, this is before all this hiking gear was out. We were in cotton clothes in a summer tent. We froze all night. We didn't bring enough food. We survived, but it's a ... we learned to start getting some good equipment in pretty quickly.

Brett Barry  5:00  
Alright, so let's start there. What's wrong with blue jeans?

Paul Misko  5:02  
Cotton is the worst thing. Maybe if you're in a very dry desert environment, it's okay, but the Catskills has such changeable weather. When you ... you're in blue jeans or cotton cloth material clothing and it gets wet, you lose almost all of the insulation quality—whereas wool or fleece or nylon [I have a nylon shirt, nylon hiking pants], they dry out quickly. They're durable. Cotton is not a good idea, so get a good pair of hiking pants. You shell out a few bucks. There's not too much and you'll have them for a few years.

Brett Barry  5:41  
Some people come up to this area who aren't used to hiking and they'll set out with a pair of flip-flops and a water bottle. That's probably not the right thing for any hike, so you've developed a list of items that no hiker should be without. But before we get into that list, how did you come to develop it? Did it emerge from occasions when you didn't have the appropriate gear? Have you been building on it?

Paul Misko  6:04  
That Wittenberg hike really, you know, taught us a good lesson to start upgrading our equipment, and then as you learn from experiences from your own experiences or other people, you start fitting out what works in the woods. There's ... there's items that look good on paper in the catalog. But in real life, they don't work as well and that's where experience comes in and you learn to bring like duplicate ... bring two lighters because, you know, one may have run out of gas while in your pack, bring two sources of light, things like that, and experiences a hard teacher. First comes to test and then the lesson.

Brett Barry  6:44  
Is there a trademarked name for this list of yours or is it in the public domain?

Paul Misko  6:49  
No, there's ... there's other similar lists out there. I mean, these ... these are just my opinions from my experiences. Every book will have its own list: the DEC has their list and, basically, the same types of things that you'll need in an emergency. I have to say this, though, there are many people who hike. We see them on the trails, like you said, "With just a water bottle, their phone, and even in flip-flops and going up like Giant Ledge, even Slide Mountain, and that's really taken a chance." I mean, really risking it and a lot of people just don't want to carry stuff. It's almost ... sometimes I think out of pride. I met one fellow, hiked with him a few times, but he didn't want to carry anything, and his reasoning was nothing's ever happened to me and I hope you can see the lack of logic in that response. So we encourage people to go prepared into the woods—and, of course, this aside from your ... your lunch, your snacks, and drinks that you would have on the hike.

Brett Barry  7:50  
Okay, so without further ado, here is Paul Misko's list of hiking essentials.

Audio  7:57  
[MUSIC STARTS]

Paul Misko  7:57  
Okay, and here's the list that I recommend. Two sources of light. This is two ... two flashlights. Get a couple of flashlights. There's so many good flashlights out now and I don't mean the cheap convenience store once, you know, get some quality flashlights and put lithium batteries in them. Take out the alkaline or whatever it came with. Put in lithium they'll never corrode. They last a long time. You may not use the flashlight for years and the lithium batteries will stay good. Two sources of ignition for lighting a fire. Two lighters [two Bic lighters even]. Again, one may break. One sometimes they run out of gas if they're scrunched in the pack. It's very little weight and it might help you out of light. A loud whistle. Sometimes if you get hurt and you're yelling for help, yelling for help, your voice will go after a while. So a whistle is good, it'll really reach out. I like to put a plastic sheet or a large plastic garbage bag along with a space blanket. That's those mylar mirror-like sheets of plastic. Every store's got them and they will really keep you warm if you have to spend a night on the mountain. Makes a big difference. I like to use a stainless steel water bottle, instead of a plastic one, just my idea: I could always boil water in it to purify it if needed. You can make a hot water bottle if you have to spend a night on the mountain. Something for the rain: a rain jacket or a poncho. I like the poncho because you can actually make a shelter out of it. A rain jacket, just one person can use, but a poncho could cover two or three people. I like a fleece jacket. Fleece is very lightweight ... dries out quickly ... if it gets soaked, you could wring it out. It still has some warmth to it. A fleece jacket and a wool hat or a fleece hat. A lot of times in the Catskills, it's warm in the day. But at night, even if you're hiking and coming down late, it could get cold on the summit. It could turn into high winds. The clouds could come and it's a whole different feeling than when you were down below by your car. It's good to have a compass and map or a GPS. I've started using the trail app. There's a few of them out there that are very good and those are really nice to use on your cell phone. You download the maps, so you don't have to have cell service to use the map on the phone and it's good to have a sense of where you are anyhow. You know, if you go downhill, you're going to hit a stream. Okay, and then the stream will go to houses and ... and roads. Get a sense when you're hiking of where exactly you're hiking [what's north, what's south, what's uphill, what's downhill] and if you have that cell phone, you know, you can reach out and make an emergency call, of course, if needed and I like to carry a little power pack, too, that you could plug the phone in and recharge it because the dead phone is not much use. Couple of energy bars. This is in addition to your lunch and snacks. You could get like 500 calories out of a couple bars, get you through the night into the next day if need be. Extra medicines. If you have certain medicines [prescriptions that you must have twice a day or whatever], you don't want to be stuck on a mountain overnight without them, so just get a little pill bottle or something, maybe a couple aspirins [Tylenol], just in case. Along with some band-aids, you don't need a whole kit necessarily, but something if you get a bad cut or scrape till you get back home. A pocket knife or a multi-tool is good, even the cheap ones are pretty good quality. So it's good to have either a pocket knife or a multi-tool, a small baggie of paper towels or wipes, you know, in case you have to use the bathroom out in the woods or whatever. It's just nice to have something to clean up with insect repellent, especially with the spring coming. We'll get black fly season and then the noseeums and then mosquitoes—and so you want to get some a little. They have small bottles that you can spray and I actually use a head net sometimes, especially in May that black flies can get real bad, and the head net will keep them out of your eyes and ears, so it lets you endure a hike outdoors.

Audio  12:37  
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Paul Misko  12:40  
So those are the most important things that every day pack should have, and I have to say, "Put a day pack together for hiking and leave everything in it." I've known so many people who they have like one flashlight and they keep it in their car when they go hiking. They try to remember to put it in their pack and they often forget it ... just get equipment for a day pack and leave it there. This way, if somebody invites you on a last minute hike, you could just grab it and go. You don't have to fish around for where's everything, you know, it's all there. Put your lunch in and you go.

Brett Barry  13:19  
Is there ever a hike or a walk through the woods that would be short enough or easy enough to be exempt from a list like this or do you take it every time?

Paul Misko  13:28  
Well, one of the lessons I learned, I was visiting a friend up in the Adirondacks. He was running a camp, and when I got there, he said, "Hey, we just have to walk this." One kid showed up late. We have to walk them out to the group by the lake. It's just a mile away or so. I said, "Well, let me get my day pack, you know, because we were going to do hiking the next day." He goes ... "No, you don't need it. It's just a short walk." And, sure enough, we walked out there. He was talking to the group for a while. It got dark and I did have a little flashlight in my pocket and a lighter did not have my day pack or anything and as, we're coming back, we started losing the trail. I turned on the flashlight and the bulb just burned out immediately. So now we actually had to light strips of birch bark to find the trail and stumble their way back to the camp and he was terribly embarrassed, of course, and that taught me like just even on a short hike ... have a few things in your pocket at least have a flashlight because things, you know, things happen in the woods you don't expect.

Audio  14:42  
[MUSIC]

Brett Barry  14:44  
Do you have an opinion on hiking alone? Is that ... is that not recommended?

Paul Misko  14:50  
It's not recommended if you're ill-equipped and inexperienced. For a few years now, I will hike alone sometimes and bushwhack hike because I do research [historical research on the mountain sides and all] and it's not always easy to find somebody who wants to take a hike that doesn't go to the summit or whatever. But I'm very well-equipped. I have more equipment that I mentioned on my basic list. I could comfortably stay overnight in the woods if I had to, and what's most important though, is you must tell somebody where you're going, when to be back by. So that they know if they don't hear from you by a certain time, they could call the ranger and, you know, get someone looking for you. You don't want to just wander off on a mountain and not tell anybody because they might not find you for days.

Audio  15:42  
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Brett Barry  15:46  
After the break, Paul shares best practices when hiking with a group and when kids are along for the adventure. Plus, a peek at Paul's own hiking schedule and a nod to old John Burroughs ... right after this.

Audio  16:04  
[MUSIC]

Campbell Brown  16:04  
Kaatscast is supported by the Mountain Eagle, covering Delaware, Greene, and Schoharie counties, including brands for the local region such as the Windham Weekly, Schoharie News, Cobleskill Herald, and Catskills Chronicle. For more information, call 518-763-6854 or email: mountaineaglenews@gmail.com. This episode is proudly sponsored by Ulster Savings Bank, stop in and meet the friendly staff at their Phoenicia and Woodstock locations. Call 866-440-0391 or visit them at ulstersavings.com. Member FDIC Equal Housing Lender.

Audio  16:07  
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Brett Barry  16:44  
Other tips for hikers or hiking with others, especially with kids?

Paul Misko  16:49  
Well, some of my tips for hiking with kids. A lot of times kids at least at first are kind of bored on the trail. It's just a long walk up the mountain to them. So make a game out of it. Make a scavenger hunt, compete against each other to find things: wildflowers, whatever. Remember that small kids have twice as many steps than an adult does on a hike. Their little legs ... they're almost going on twice the hike that adults do. So don't forget that when you're taking small kids on the trail ... very important address kids in bright colors. I see sometimes kids dressed in camo. I mean, just imagine your kid getting lost in the woods and you're trying to find them and he's in camo. I mean, not such a great idea or black. Put some bright colors on them and especially don't let them out of sight. I often see kids running ahead of the group, ahead of their family, out of sight of the adults. I've seen kids take the wrong turn on the trail and I've had to tell the parents who were coming up behind. Oh, they went that way. They took the wrong and, you know, please keep everyone in sight because it's so easy for kids to just disappear and kids are funny and that sometimes even as they hear you yelling for them, they won't respond, they just figure ... I'll just find my way back. So don't let them out of sight in the first place.

Audio  18:15  
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Paul Misko  18:16  
Also with kids, if only the parents carry emergency gear and the kids have nothing, well, that doesn't help the kid if he wanders off and gets lost on the mountaintop. So as soon as they can have them carry some things, they could carry a little flashlight in their pocket, a whistle, and a space blanket—just those three things will go a long way to keep them safe, if they get lost and it starts getting dark and it goes into the night. Makes a big difference, if they have a whistle, a space blanket, and a flashlight. They can carry that. The youngest kid could carry that on them—and a caution about bears ... people always ask ... "What do you do about bears?" Well, there's a lot of bears in the Catskills. I've seen plenty. Some hikers never see a bear their whole life hiking. Most bears will run when they see you. Sometimes you'll just end up surprising a bear. You come around the bend and sometimes it could be a mother with cubs, especially this time of year. In that case, you want to slowly back away ... don't run, don't scream, just back away out of sight and you'll be okay. Occasionally, and this is very rare, but it's happened. There will be a bear that will stalk you in the woods, just the lone bear following you. That's the bear you got to watch out for. You try to get away, but if he keeps following, you may have to stop and yell, throw rocks at it, throw sticks, get on something high, stand on a rock, get together in a group and try to scare it off, but keep trying to get away as you do that. But again, that's very rare, but it does happen.

Brett Barry  20:03  
And the whistle in the bag ... is that any help against to deter animals like a bear?

Paul Misko  20:08  
Well, some people wear bear bells. They sell in stores. They'll work. They'll notify a bear that you're coming around the bend. I don't like hiking with people with bear bells because I don't want to hear ding-a-ling all ... although hits a mountain. You can use some pepper spray. There's bear spray you can purchase that will certainly stop and attack [a possible attack] if need be and sometimes you have a bad dog on a trail that attacks people. That's probably more common than a bear attack. So sometimes, you know, pepper spray may help in that case and just a word about a few hike with your dog. I like dogs personally to always have. But just keep in mind that your dog's antics may not be as entertaining to others as they are to you. I've seen hikes on the mountaintop. Somebody's dog just roaming around—knocking over people's water bottles, grabbing their sandwiches, just making a mess of everything, and the people did nothing about it—just be considerate with your dog. Keep them on a leash, keep them near you, and everybody will be happy.

Brett Barry  21:18  
So let's say, "I'm in charge of my group. I'm a ... I'm a hike leader." What do I need to do to keep not only myself safe and happy but the other people around me?

Paul Misko  21:31  
Well, if ... if you're going to lead a hike, you don't have to be a formal leader to lead a hike, maybe you're going with another family. You're taking them, you know, a group on a hike or taking their kids along. Be sure of the trail—and now, it's so easy to go online and you could check the trail. See people's reviews: how difficult it is. If you have to cross a stream, all sorts of things you could look up before you go. Figure on one mile per hour. So a five-mile trip, figure at least five hours. Because that includes stops and lunch and everything. You have to go by the slowest person in the group. Overstate the difficulty of the hike, too ... many hikes ... people get in trouble because they think it's easy and it turns out to be much more difficult. Pay attention to the physical condition of people in your group. Are they turning red, rapid breathing? Find out ahead of time, if they have some physical ailment that you didn't know about. Maybe they're not up to the hike, so it's good to keep an eye on everybody and don't let the slow people straggle out of sight. Put the fast people in the back and the slower people in front. This way, you keep everyone in a group. Make sure folks have their own emergency equipment. Tell him to bring a flashlight and a lighter and a rain jacket and all that stuff. Don't just count on one person bringing it—and lastly, when you're done with the hike because some trailheads are very remote—and this is especially in winter, but also in summer. When you get back to the trailhead after the hike, make sure everybody in your group, make sure their car starts. Sometimes people left the light on or whatever. You don't want to leave somebody stranded in their cars. Everyone off, heads off for their pizza or whatever. So just as a courtesy, make sure everyone's headed out together and you'll have a good hike.

Brett Barry  23:27  
And again, some of these tips sound like they come straight from personal experience.

Paul Misko  23:31  
Yeah, it's ... it's personal experience. It's hearing stories from other people. I try to learn from other people's mistakes as much as possible rather than having to go through it myself and I am a little more overcautious because when you lead hikes ... sometimes I'll lead hikes for the public with, you know, "Lark in the Park" or "Catskill Mountain Club" or whatever. You don't know who's going to show up for the hike, so I carry extra equipment: a little more first aid, a little extra food, and an extra rain jacket because, you know, people who usually underprepared not overprepared.

Brett Barry  24:08  
And as a hiker historian, do you have some stories from history about hiking in these hills?

Paul Misko  24:17  
Well, I love reading about John Burroughs, of course. He's one of my favorites. He writes some great essays about his adventures in the Catskills and you could learn a lot from his hikes. I noticed a lot of people never hiked with him twice. He seems to have bad luck on his hikes. 1884: He made an attempt to go up Slide Mountain: first attempt and they took the wrong route. They got to the top of Wittenberg so late in the afternoon. They couldn't go over to Slide. They had to spend a night unexpectedly. They had a jar full of coffee, but it was cold. So one of them rummaged around. His friend rummaged around and found a rusty old can. They heated up the coffee. They made a shelter and spent the night, and got down the next morning, never made it to Slide that year. So, next year, he went up with some other friends from Woodland Valley—and again, ill-equipped. They had some food in their pockets. You know, they didn't have the equipment we do today. They spent a very cold night in June. The second night was even colder. That next morning [the morning they were going to come down], he and a friend, they were snow pellets. This is in June. So the Catskill weather is very unpredictable and John Burroughs himself was very tough. It didn't bother him much, but a lot of the people he hiked with never forgot those rugged hikes. Nowadays, it's so easy to get some good equipment without too much expense and you'll be able to not only help yourself in the woods. You can help someone else—and also, you'll have more confidence to maybe come down the mountain a little later or do a bushwhack if you're prepared and you build some experience.

Brett Barry  26:13  
Do you have a favorite hike or hikes and what do you think makes hiking in the Catskills special?

Paul Misko  26:19  
Well, the mountain ... I'd say ... I probably like the most is Wittenberg. It's got a fantastic view, but it's a very rugged trail. Even in the summer, if it's rained the night before and the trail is wet, I won't do Wittenberg because it's very slippery. Lot of rocks and mud gets on your boots. So even me with my experience, I pick and choose my hikes depending on the weather and what the weather's going to be that night or even the next day. If it's a spring hike, the day might be beautiful, but if that evening, a very cold front's moving in with possible snow or sleet. I have to wait. You know, what if I have to stay overnight on this mountain? This is going to be terrible, so I'll do a shorter hike instead. Experience will teach you a lot. Always figure that things may not turn out as you planned, especially with the weather in the Catskills. Overprepare a little bit. Be on the safe side. Of course, to a lot of people, the Catskills is special. It just has a unique geography, a unique plant life, and once you learn the history of ... of the valleys, the history of Slide Mountain, and the history of Wittenberg, I've gotten to see so many photos of people who hiked these mountains in the 1800s even and hear their stories. It becomes so much more special to you to go to the very same places John Burroughs hiked to take the same trails he hiked. It's almost like you know him personally, when you ... when you put those two things together.

Audio  27:55  
[MUSIC]

Brett Barry  27:55  
How often do you get out there and what's your next hike?

Paul Misko  27:58  
Pretty much. My rule nowadays is if it's above 60 degrees, I'm going because I used to winter camp and winter hike, but it's not so much anymore. But if it's a nice day, I want to be out there. So I'll lead hikes during the week. I'll go myself during the week. Lead hikes on weekends for various groups for my own club or just for a couple of friends. So I'd rather be out ... outdoors having lunch on a ledge than in the finest restaurant anytime.

Audio  28:31  
[MUSIC]

Brett Barry  28:34  
Check out our show notes for more about Paul Misko and a link to his blog.

Audio  28:43  
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Brett Barry  28:43  
"Kaatscast: The Catskills Podcast" is a production of Silver Hollow Audio. Production support from Jerome Kazlauskas, Juliana Warren, Campbell Brown, and Rebecca Rego Barry. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow us on Instagram @kaatscast and there's lots more at kaatscast.com. I'm Brett Barry. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.

Campbell Brown  29:11  
Kaatscast is supported by a generous grant from the Nicholas J. Juried Family Foundation and by listeners like you! If you'd like to make a donation, you can do so at kaatscast.com. Thank you!

Audio  29:25  
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